Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

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Re: Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

Postby TCS_Kram_ » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:30 pm

what is needed in the recipe to level it up? same 1 indigo for lvl 1, 2 for lvl 2, 5 for lvl 3, and whatever for higher levels?
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Re: Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

Postby Doctor_Love_Money_Shot » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:09 pm

CeIestial_Being wrote:3 pieces of Lv6 give total 14.4% faster regen. 14.4% equivalent to 14~15 minutes faster regen. Consider the en regen is a stand alone stat, 14.4% will add on top of the blessing of stamina makes total 34.4% which equivalent to 34~35 minutes faster regen. Hence, what it would normally take 1 hour 45 minutes to completely regen all 42 en would now take 1 hour 10 minutes. Which gives you approximately 84 more en if you play 16 hours a day and never let en regen timer to stop. 84 en equals to 28 GS FYI. You get your 375 GS back in 2 weeks


I just wanna fact check this 2 week pay back calculation. It sounds like the payback is factoring in the energy elixir/blessing. But if that's the case, then there is a much larger cost that needs to be factored in, not just the 375 purchase price. Anyone else do these calculations?
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Re: Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

Postby GioRGiO » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:20 pm

What lvl gear are you guys enchanting? I think the benefit will depend on the tier of gear aswell which may account for the differences in regen rates you are seeing.
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Re: Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

Postby japster » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:34 pm

MolonLabeCIO wrote:Dumb question: is this enchantment recipe shared between toons like energy potions are?

375 for all toons is one thing, 375 for each is something else.


Are energy potions shared between toons?! As far as I know, this is not the case.

Enchantments should not be shared across toons either.
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Re: Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

Postby Hai5 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:44 pm

Doctor_Love wrote:
CeIestial_Being wrote:3 pieces of Lv6 give total 14.4% faster regen. 14.4% equivalent to 14~15 minutes faster regen. Consider the en regen is a stand alone stat, 14.4% will add on top of the blessing of stamina makes total 34.4% which equivalent to 34~35 minutes faster regen. Hence, what it would normally take 1 hour 45 minutes to completely regen all 42 en would now take 1 hour 10 minutes. Which gives you approximately 84 more en if you play 16 hours a day and never let en regen timer to stop. 84 en equals to 28 GS FYI. You get your 375 GS back in 2 weeks


I just wanna fact check this 2 week pay back calculation. It sounds like the payback is factoring in the energy elixir/blessing. But if that's the case, then there is a much larger cost that needs to be factored in, not just the 375 purchase price. Anyone else do these calculations?


I'm sorry, I'll calculate again.

Note: The following time are in 24 hours military time between 0000~1600 hour for argument sake.

Regular Regen without any boost (2 En per 5 minutes. Full Regen every 1 hour 45 minutes)

0000 Wake Up
0145 1st return
0330 2nd
0515 3rd
0700 4th
0845 5th
1030 6th
1215 7th
1400 8th
1545 9 returns with 6 en left over

With 20% Blessing of Stamina (2 En per 4 minutes. Full Regen every 1 hour 25 minutes)

0000 Wake Up
0125 1st return
0250 2nd
0415 3rd
0540 4th
0705 5th
0830 6th
0955 7th
1120 8th
1245 9th
1410 10th
1535 11 returns with 12 en left over

From above, we can see the difference between standard regen and 20% stamina regen. 11 returns with 12 en left over vs. 9 returns with 6 en left over. The difference is 90 extra en daily resulting from regular vs. stamina. With that being said, we move on to the energy regen enchant. As you may have already noticed, 20% from blessing of stamina speeds up regen by 20 minutes, hence 3 pieces of Lv6 energy regen enchant which give 14.4% total faster regen should speed up regen by 14.4 minutes. Let's round it off to 15 minutes for argument sake. And statistics shown below:

With 14.4% En Regen Enchant (Full Regen every 1 hour 30 minutes)

0000 Wake Up
0130 1st return
0300 2nd
0430 3rd
0600 4th
0730 5th
0900 6th
1030 7th
1200 8th
1330 9th
1500 10th
1600 10 returns with 28 en left over

Compare above with regular regen, regular regen gives 9 returns 6 en left over and 14.4% gives 10 returns with 28 en left over. The difference is extra 64 en per day resulting from regular vs. en regen enchant. 64 (14.4%) vs. 90 (20%). I'd like to mention when Lv9 enchant is introduced, it will boost 14.4% to 21.6% which means free blessing of stamina for life :) but essence requirement is gonna be over millions in quantity.
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Re: Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

Postby japster » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:14 pm

Doctor_Love wrote:
CeIestial_Being wrote:3 pieces of Lv6 give total 14.4% faster regen. 14.4% equivalent to 14~15 minutes faster regen. Consider the en regen is a stand alone stat, 14.4% will add on top of the blessing of stamina makes total 34.4% which equivalent to 34~35 minutes faster regen. Hence, what it would normally take 1 hour 45 minutes to completely regen all 42 en would now take 1 hour 10 minutes. Which gives you approximately 84 more en if you play 16 hours a day and never let en regen timer to stop. 84 en equals to 28 GS FYI. You get your 375 GS back in 2 weeks


I just wanna fact check this 2 week pay back calculation. It sounds like the payback is factoring in the energy elixir/blessing. But if that's the case, then there is a much larger cost that needs to be factored in, not just the 375 purchase price. Anyone else do these calculations?


Would this work? Since he factored in an additional 20%, we just deduct (20/34.4)*100% from his results...so we deduct 58.14% from his finding of 84energy...which lands it at approximately 48.8 but let's round down to 48. Which means...16GS payback.

Thus 375/16 = approximately 23.5days = 3 weeks and 2.5 days?

But IMO this is only as accurate as if you could actually enchant lvl 6 energy regen instantly. Do not forget Hai is a very dedicated player who has an ungodly hero score. His attitude towards farming and gs usage is rather different from other more casual players. And his ability to empty his energy bar every hour for 16hours a day without fail is not a habit most players can actually adopt. Still his maths is solid to support his type of playstyle. The enchantment is no doubt very valuable for players such as himself, who buys greater elixir of stamina weekly, focusing exclusively on perfection and highest possible hero score.

I would like to offer another perspective on the energy regen enchant. Undoubtedly it does save you gs no matter how you look at it, if we are always comparing the reduction in timer to purchasing energy with gs. It just becomes a matter of how much savings in gs you get, and the opportunity costs involved.

The more important question to ask ourselves is WHY we want this enchantment. In the first place, even farming up the materials is a crazy grind. Hai has offered his maths to me privately in guild chat (he probably can reiterate his maths here later), I THINK it was along the lines of 30 days of non-stop farming, 16 hours a day, with blessing to get the necessary 28050 essences for the lvl 6 enchant on all 3 pieces of gear. I am unsure if his maths factored in the energy enchant, but if it did then it would be rather flawed to use the "rewards" of your farming to calculate the time taken to farm the mats required for this "reward" (lvl 6 enchant).

Not everyone can farm in that manner. And neither can everyone, or should everyone stop raiding. That just kills off guild raiding activities, and is extremely selfish if the guild needs help with raiding.

Now why do you want this enchant? Is it,
1. To get more valor/ht by squeezing in 1 to 4 more hits over 3hours in a raid (as calculated earlier by NikoNarf)?
2. To get MVP?
3. To save a raid from failing/gold?
4. To farm more mats for other enchants (by having 1 more hit per portal?)

If one thinks about it carefully, reasons 2, and 3 cannot be solved with the energy regen enchant. Saving raids and MVP requires burning gs, not slow (mind you, this enchant alone is extremely slow) energy usage.

Farming for other fluxes
Reason 4 seems plausible, until you realize that luck enchant gives you better mileage for farming materials than energy enchant. Assuming we all start off at 3 * lvl 3 enchants, luck vs energy regen, in 1hour, you cannot even get enough regen to pull off 1 extra hit because you only shave off 21.6s per 5minutes, and in the usual 60minutes, you only save 259.2seconds, which is 19.2seconds off the next energy regen tick! Whereas with 4.5%, you still have a decent chance of double loot drops.

Fast forward to 3 * lvl 6 enchants, for luck, you get a 9% drop, which is a 1 in 10 chance of double loot (roughly). Thus in a 1hour portal without blessing of stamina, and full energy, you can do 33hits, and probably yield 36hits worth of materials (or even more if you're lucky).

For energy enchant, you are now shaving off 43.2s per 5minutes. Using the same calculation, in 1hour you can do 33hits + 2 extra hits.

Since luck is a probability, and energy enchant is a constant, it is hard to say definitively that at lvl 6, luck would be superior to energy enchant. But on a balance of probabilities, I would say luck would be better more often than not, or at least comparable at lvl 6.

At lvl 3 enchants, energy regen does not even aid farming portals whatsoever. Luck is clearly superior.

Conclusion

Of the 4 reasons I postulated for wanting energy regen enchant, reason 1 is the only one that is actually valid. So you need to ask yourself if you're willing to shell out 375 gs for a recipe, and spend the innominate amount of time farming for the materials needed to properly utilize it, just so as to SQUEEZE in a couple more hits over a 3hour raid.

Chances are by the time you are done farming the mats for a lvl 6 enchant, you will have no use for valor, and little use for hero tokens (except to absolutely maximize your stat point). And even then, the yield of 3-4more hits only nets you probably 20-25 more valor, and 4-5 more hero tokens.

The other reason of farming is a value judgment that one needs to decide for themselves as well. My personal view is that luck enchant will far outstrip the rate of farming for enchant mats (for enchants in other slots) after you maximize luck as opposed to energy regen.

Ultimately, I do not disagree that energy regen is good. Like I said at the start, it saves gs if we equate time to gs. However, in practical terms, due to the high amount of material costs involved, we need to be more critical when investing time, effort and possibly money into an enchantment.

The energy regen enchant seems, to me at least, to be well-suited to hardcore gamers who already buy lots of elixirs, burn loads of gs, and are constantly maximizing their hero score and farming through literally non-stop gaming for 16hours or more daily. The practical benefit of the energy regen enchant is not actually for farming materials more efficiently, nor is it for getting bonus valor. It is just a tool for such power gamers to save GS over the long run (which pays out real quickly for them due to their intense game play) as they rack up hero score.

If you do not fall into that playstyle, I think the luck enchant, would be for all purposes and intent related to farming, be by far superior and more cost efficient.

Of course in the ideal world, if mats could be gotten for both enchants quickly, get 2 sets of gear and use one for farming in combat, and the other when you're dry. Alas, that's a dream only few can achieve, probably done by those very same power gamers who are exalting this energy regen enchantment.

P.S. we have not even talked about farming for additional mats for the elemental damage enchants, which I'm sure will be a key enchantment for PvP in future. Clearly farming is the focus here and whether energy regen or luck would suit one's needs better, I think I have cogently argued my case.
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Re: Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

Postby Celestial_LordOfBlades » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:43 pm

Better solution, focus on enchanting luck to Lv6 on all 3, then focus on energy. Use energy gears to regen and switch to luck to farm. FYI, casual play style will take more than a year to enchant all 9 pieces to Lv6, so focus on T15, L5 first
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Re: Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

Postby Bbbb » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:50 pm

Japster - great post. I think I am in the never never land where I'm not a Hai style burner, but I'm definitely not average either. I'm trying on one toon since I had I excess GS but am wavering between good long term decision and a horrible mistake....
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Re: Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

Postby japster » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:08 am

Bbbb wrote:Japster - great post. I think I am in the never never land where I'm not a Hai style burner, but I'm definitely not average either. I'm trying on one toon since I had I excess GS but am wavering between good long term decision and a horrible mistake....


I am a lot like you. I am definitely playing more than average, and rather consistently too, but certainly not a huge spender. This makes it a real conundrum, hence it forced me to rationalize my thoughts clearly.

I think I will still do luck enchant, since I am sure my focus will be on farming for mats, and not hero score. But I am definitely going to aim for 2 sets of gear per my "dream" suggestion lol.
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Re: Energy Regen Enchant in Black Market

Postby NikoNarf_1 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:51 am

I do play more than average, but I play five 15k-16k might characters, so I technically regen energy at 2e per minute... Great for carrying the load during a raid without spending a fortune in GS. This means I rarely run my chars dry (only in long raids) So regen is definitely not the recipe for me.
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